There can’t be enough monitors connected to a workstation

@emil I really want compact, lightweight, and high resolution VR goggles so that I can surround myself with monitors even when traveling.

@harding I think AR would be better for that. I prefer to see my keyboard

@emil heh, I type Dvorak on a QWERTY keyboard, so looking at my keyboard while typing is a distraction. 😃

@harding @emil same! programmer dvorak on a qwerty (i usually go for all-black keys now). and yes, i prefer keyboards without the distraction of LED lighting.

@jon @harding @emil

Curious, do you guys ever have to look for non-alphabetic symbols? :) I've been a touch typer (qwerty) for like 35 years or something ridiculous (learnt in my early teens - on a typewriter!) but i still struggle sometimes with symbols, depending on the keyboard.

@waxwing @jon @emil I don't think I ever really look, although sometimes I do a bit of off-by-one-key trial and error. I've been a touch typer also since my teens (20 years) and dvorak for over 10 years.

The one thing I do still look at the keyboard for is one-handed keyboard use when I'm just lazily browsing and want to do things like Ctrl-Tab or trigger some window manager options.

@harding @waxwing @emil What harding said 👍, good points. Same, learned to touch type in school at age 12 or so (what a useful class) but only switched to dvorak a little over a year ago. Was a 90wpm typer in qwerty, now 60ish in dvorak but my hands feel better, especially my left hand which qwerty overuses.

I actually use dvp (programmer dvorak), and so now do off-by-one trial and error more with numbers and less with symbols, since the symbols get more importance and better placement.

@jon @waxwing @emil Yeah, I switched for relief from repetitive strain injuries that were getting worse every year. If it wasn't for dvorak and the workrave applet, I doubt I'd be writing today.

@harding @waxwing @emil this ^... severe hand/wrist rsi in the middle of a six-month freelance death march for the paris airports made me desperate. in the same month i switched to dvorak, bought kinesis foot pedals, and tried 15+ ergonomic/mechanical/topre keyboards of all sizes and formats.

@harding @waxwing @emil TIL about workrave, ty dave. it's even in the debian dist: apt show workrave. will try. i think what saved my hands the most was no longer using laptop keyboards (the hand/wrist position they induce is really bad) & placing the mech or topre keyboard on my knees sitting straight or leaning back somewhat instead of leaning forward hunched over the laptop, but dvorak helped, perhaps partly by slowing me down


@jon @harding @waxwing @emil I was just about to ask why you were (all) using dvorak. I had heard about it, but never looked into it.
Can I conclude it is because of RSI? If true, 'just' because of it or is there more to it?

I''ve been using a Microsoft Natural keyboard for many years precisely because it keeps your hand/wrists in a more natural position then a normal keyboard and certainly a laptop keyboard.

@FreePietje @jon @harding @waxwing My PERSONAL opinion is that dvorak is not worth it as long as you don’t have any finger problems. The time you need to switch until you are as fast as on QWERTY is probably longer than the time it takes to switch I believe. Also the first weeks are terrible

@FreePietje @jon @waxwing @emil some of the world's fastest typists use dvorak, although I type the same speed on it that I did on qwerty (80 wpm) and I doubt I'll ever get any faster (except to do transcription work like Bryan Bishop, I don't think typing faster would help me much).

So, for me, it's all about preventing RSI.

One nice side benefit, though, is that it makes shoulder-surfing my passwords harder. E.g. "password123" on qwerty is "ra;;,soh123" on modified dvorak.

@harding @FreePietje @waxwing @emil thanks for the article!

agreed, for me the search for pain prevention was what finally pushed me over the line to learn dvorak.

the opsec is a bonus.

i was a very fast qwerty typer, and so far am slower in dvorak, so the change had nothing to do with speed.

my one complaint is that i find the -/_ key next to <RET> (on ANSI layouts) to be error-prone.

@harding @FreePietje @waxwing @emil error-prone as in, i sometimes hit <RET> when i wanted to type a hyphen or underscore...

in general i find that dvorak uses the right hand more than qwerty does. and the fingers move less.

as a programmer the arguments presented here were also interesting, which is why i went for the programmer variant:

@harding @FreePietje @waxwing @emil fair warning: i found that the dvorak programmer variant is not compatible with some ergo keyboard layouts, specifically the kinesis advantage ergonomic keyboards, which work well for dvorak but not programmer dvorak.

@harding @jon @waxwing @emil Thanks :)
Typing fast isn't important to me as software engineering is far more about thinking then typing.
Preventing RSI has always been important to me and therefor I immediately bought a 'broken' keyboard and I assume it's also because of that, that I've never had any complaints (wrt RSI) :D

Thanks for bringing up workrave as it made me install rsibreak (again) as that's a KDE program, but will probably try workrave as well.

@harding @jon @waxwing @emil And also thanks for bringing up
I use(d) MS's keyboard as that was the only broken keyboard I knew about then, but an open source one sounds better :)

@FreePietje if you want to learn dvorak, this free program enabled me to learn the alphabet keys in 4 days:

following which i used this free one for the non-alphas:

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