There can’t be enough monitors connected to a workstation

@emil I really want compact, lightweight, and high resolution VR goggles so that I can surround myself with monitors even when traveling.

@harding I think AR would be better for that. I prefer to see my keyboard

@emil heh, I type Dvorak on a QWERTY keyboard, so looking at my keyboard while typing is a distraction. 😃

@harding @emil same! programmer dvorak on a qwerty (i usually go for all-black keys now). and yes, i prefer keyboards without the distraction of LED lighting.

@jon @harding @emil

Curious, do you guys ever have to look for non-alphabetic symbols? :) I've been a touch typer (qwerty) for like 35 years or something ridiculous (learnt in my early teens - on a typewriter!) but i still struggle sometimes with symbols, depending on the keyboard.

@waxwing @jon @emil I don't think I ever really look, although sometimes I do a bit of off-by-one-key trial and error. I've been a touch typer also since my teens (20 years) and dvorak for over 10 years.

The one thing I do still look at the keyboard for is one-handed keyboard use when I'm just lazily browsing and want to do things like Ctrl-Tab or trigger some window manager options.

@harding @waxwing @emil What harding said 👍, good points. Same, learned to touch type in school at age 12 or so (what a useful class) but only switched to dvorak a little over a year ago. Was a 90wpm typer in qwerty, now 60ish in dvorak but my hands feel better, especially my left hand which qwerty overuses.

I actually use dvp (programmer dvorak), and so now do off-by-one trial and error more with numbers and less with symbols, since the symbols get more importance and better placement.

@jon @waxwing @emil Yeah, I switched for relief from repetitive strain injuries that were getting worse every year. If it wasn't for dvorak and the workrave applet, I doubt I'd be writing today.

@harding @waxwing @emil this ^... severe hand/wrist rsi in the middle of a six-month freelance death march for the paris airports made me desperate. in the same month i switched to dvorak, bought kinesis foot pedals, and tried 15+ ergonomic/mechanical/topre keyboards of all sizes and formats.

@harding @waxwing @emil TIL about workrave, ty dave. it's even in the debian dist: apt show workrave. will try. i think what saved my hands the most was no longer using laptop keyboards (the hand/wrist position they induce is really bad) & placing the mech or topre keyboard on my knees sitting straight or leaning back somewhat instead of leaning forward hunched over the laptop, but dvorak helped, perhaps partly by slowing me down

@jon @waxwing @emil In case you want more info, here's an article I wrote about it a decade ago (not much has changed):

For laptop keyboards, I find that I'm ok if I use a full-sized keyboard (e.g. laptops with 14-inch or larger screens) and I'm careful about my hand position. That said, I have a split keyboard[1] for desktop use that allows me to get ideal positioning.

I've never tried foot peddles for shifting keys; that's interesting.


@harding @jon @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Ok this keyboard is EPIC! I need it!

Do you guys have any preferred switches? Especially those with RSI experience? My main kb has MX clears (the heavy-non-clicky ones). I also have a small kb with browns (the lighter variant). My hands sometimes feel tired after an active day on the clears. But on the browns I sometimes feel that my typing goes ahead of me, as if I need the delay of the heavier bump fr my hands to decide which key to go next.


@stevenroose @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Steven, you could start the day on the clears and switch to the browns (or reds for linear or blues for clicky) as your hands tire. Note that the clears and browns are both tactile switches.

@jon @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Yeah, I think switching keyboards would be a lot of work.. I respect your keyboard enthusiasm though, but swapping multiple times a day would be a bit much.
Why do you note that? I know they are both "bumpy" as opposed to clicky. I don't think I could pull it off typing on a clicky kb very often.
What do you dislike about the browns? That they are too light?
So the clears are not too heavy for heavier users with an RSI history? That helps, thanks!


@stevenroose @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Not sure I would conclude that about clears. I usually type on heavier switches with the keeb in my lap, which likely provides more natural force than with keeb on a desk. I also use lighter switches too (variable topres are quite light) and prefer reds to browns for whatever reason. Browns seem yucky and grainy to me. Maybe it's because of the topre smoothness. I like clicky & box springs too; very satisying but office-hostile, for home use only.

@stevenroose @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje I think the only way to know is to try for yourself and return or resell what you don't like. I also only change keebs when I'm at home and feel the need to change. It just happens to be fairly often, except with the realforces.

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