@emil heh, I type Dvorak on a QWERTY keyboard, so looking at my keyboard while typing is a distraction. 😃

@harding @emil same! programmer dvorak on a qwerty (i usually go for all-black keys now). and yes, i prefer keyboards without the distraction of LED lighting.

@jon @harding @emil

Curious, do you guys ever have to look for non-alphabetic symbols? :) I've been a touch typer (qwerty) for like 35 years or something ridiculous (learnt in my early teens - on a typewriter!) but i still struggle sometimes with symbols, depending on the keyboard.

@waxwing @jon @emil I don't think I ever really look, although sometimes I do a bit of off-by-one-key trial and error. I've been a touch typer also since my teens (20 years) and dvorak for over 10 years.

The one thing I do still look at the keyboard for is one-handed keyboard use when I'm just lazily browsing and want to do things like Ctrl-Tab or trigger some window manager options.

@harding @waxwing @emil What harding said 👍, good points. Same, learned to touch type in school at age 12 or so (what a useful class) but only switched to dvorak a little over a year ago. Was a 90wpm typer in qwerty, now 60ish in dvorak but my hands feel better, especially my left hand which qwerty overuses.

I actually use dvp (programmer dvorak), and so now do off-by-one trial and error more with numbers and less with symbols, since the symbols get more importance and better placement.

@jon @waxwing @emil Yeah, I switched for relief from repetitive strain injuries that were getting worse every year. If it wasn't for dvorak and the workrave applet, I doubt I'd be writing today.

@harding @waxwing @emil this ^... severe hand/wrist rsi in the middle of a six-month freelance death march for the paris airports made me desperate. in the same month i switched to dvorak, bought kinesis foot pedals, and tried 15+ ergonomic/mechanical/topre keyboards of all sizes and formats.

@harding @waxwing @emil TIL about workrave, ty dave. it's even in the debian dist: apt show workrave. will try. i think what saved my hands the most was no longer using laptop keyboards (the hand/wrist position they induce is really bad) & placing the mech or topre keyboard on my knees sitting straight or leaning back somewhat instead of leaning forward hunched over the laptop, but dvorak helped, perhaps partly by slowing me down

@jon @waxwing @emil In case you want more info, here's an article I wrote about it a decade ago (not much has changed): linux.com/news/workrave-fights

For laptop keyboards, I find that I'm ok if I use a full-sized keyboard (e.g. laptops with 14-inch or larger screens) and I'm careful about my hand position. That said, I have a split keyboard[1] for desktop use that allows me to get ideal positioning.

I've never tried foot peddles for shifting keys; that's interesting.

[1] ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/

@harding @jon @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Ok this keyboard is EPIC! I need it!

Do you guys have any preferred switches? Especially those with RSI experience? My main kb has MX clears (the heavy-non-clicky ones). I also have a small kb with browns (the lighter variant). My hands sometimes feel tired after an active day on the clears. But on the browns I sometimes feel that my typing goes ahead of me, as if I need the delay of the heavier bump fr my hands to decide which key to go next.


@stevenroose @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Steven, you could start the day on the clears and switch to the browns (or reds for linear or blues for clicky) as your hands tire. Note that the clears and browns are both tactile switches.

@jon @harding @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Yeah, I think switching keyboards would be a lot of work.. I respect your keyboard enthusiasm though, but swapping multiple times a day would be a bit much.
Why do you note that? I know they are both "bumpy" as opposed to clicky. I don't think I could pull it off typing on a clicky kb very often.
What do you dislike about the browns? That they are too light?
So the clears are not too heavy for heavier users with an RSI history? That helps, thanks!

@stevenroose the "note" was just that you might want to try other switch types than tactile mx, like topre, clicky mx (blue), box springs, alps, mathias, ibm, etc.

@jon MX clicky ones are also tactile, right? I know people love clicky keyboards, I'd personally prefer not to go that road because of my environment :) I already get complaints from time to time with the clears.
How are topre ones? You seem to like them :)

@stevenroose clicky switches are a separate category from tactile. louder. the curve is different.

there are options for silencing loud keyboards.

topres are different from mx switches, or even mechanical ones, since they are a different technology: rubber domes.made in Japan, expensive, and very smooth/buttery. mx switches feel like they have sand in them in comparison. you don't need to bottom topres out when typing. they can be easier on your fingers if you adopt a soft, light typing style.


@jon Yeah I've been there a lot before buying my current keyboard :)

Sign in to participate in the conversation
unidentified instance

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!