@bjoern we looked at XMPP and IRC for a chat system but decided to start with our own design. I can see the attraction to jumpstart a feature but there are other paths as well.
@0 @bjoern It was more roadmap vs giving up in IRC entirely. For the initial release we wanted to test some new takes on group chat and self moderation and do it quickly. IRC was overkill for what we needed at least in an initial product release. I think once we get good user data we will revisit IRC and a Federated server setup.
We may even go with a simple Flutter or Native Client sitting on top of Firebase to test our designs and assumptions.
Happy to DM or do a call any time.
@stevenroose @0 @bjoern At what cost? Without seeing the client design (a lot more than chat & rooms)/use case/personas/budget are you 100% sure it fits? My SysOps guy with 25+ yrs experience downloaded it, several other XMPP server setups, UnRealIRC and several Jabber and IRC clients with the idea of just “tweaking” them. We did not dismiss any of the tech just felt it was overkill for an MVP+. If you want to help us evaluate this option, config & launch it I am all ears. Thx!
@Rlaracue @0 @bjoern I can't speak for that. I think some of the XMPP chat rooms would be better suited for that. Like ejabberd's room or Prosody's room.
Personally it looks like being fluent in the language a server is written in (Erlang or Lua in this case) can help a lot but I know both of them also support external extensions using the XMPP standardized extension protocol. So mostly you should find a library that can help you work with the extension protocol in your favorite language.
@Rlaracue Honestly I can't say if it's a good idea for an MVP(+). I have never done it. But f.e. as a bigger player like WhatsApp or f.e. a Wire that's now implementing federation, I think building on top of XMPP makes sense.
@stevenroose I also spoke to some people working on Apache Vysper. He (long time Java/C guy) said XMPP can be very chatty and have higher cloud costs at least more than a bootstrap could handle if they trip over a hit. He also said some of the room, moderation and other tools are less deep vs IRC. So he also suggested build something simple and test, a lot and then decide on long term server tech.
@stevenroose BTW regardless of traditional or XMPP based comms we are actually in the market for a Go developer now. We want to work with Go and eventually Rust on the back end as we grow. Some of the functions in the client are well beyond chat and will need to be developed outside of the chat server. So if u have some spare cycles or know a strong Go backend person please let me know. Agencies you trust are also welcomed but again budgets are limited re: hr/rate. Thx
@0 I will be blunt back.. Who are you, your skills and what is your interest?
No interest whatsoever. From your postings here it's clear that you are miles out of your depth, that your “team” are similarly unqualified, and that you live in blissful ignorance/denial of that.
Given that, get a one day consultation with process one or one of their competitors and they'll tell you exactly what you need. Better spend a couple grand on that now than pissing it off on some amateur stabbing in the dark.
I find your blather rather boring so I'm going to mute you.
@stevenroose Thanks so much and I appreciate the patience. I am doing the legwork but I am the biz guy. Shocking I know. :)
@stevenroose Never heard back from Miguel. Tried email and LinkedIn. Appreciate the legwork and lead. PS - I am in the market for a CTO as well. Part time and for equity. Social good project. :)
@stevenroose To be clear, which is a challenge fractured statement communications, we will ultimately use one of XMPP or IRC. The goal of the MVP is to get solid user data, validate user design/personas and get funded. If we had the budget we would be more aggressive but between covids impact on the economy and my mother dying suddenly a month ago we had to scale back. I am the bank and now have more personal stuff to support. Thx.
@stevenroose @0 @bjoern We also ran into the Erlang bit (we dont have those skills) but tested a few plugins/libs for accessing XMPP and IRC servers. I think as we work the personas and firm up the final client we will have the data to make a decision between XMPP and IRC. We will need one of them at some point.
A day? For what kind of configuration?
Vanilla single host, single node it's more like twenty minutes, and most of that is spent in generating the SSL certificate and updating your DNS zone. 😜
If we're talking multi-node cluster then it's surely a different story. I have no experience with that sort of setup.
@0 @bjoern But that's because you did this before.
Creating your config or finding an example config is not easy. Matching the config with the correct DNS records is not easy. I'm talking first time doing it.
I recently setup my second XMPP server and I ended up mostly looking at my first one because it was a lot easier than looking up documentation again.
Actually, I did this a few weeks ago on a new box with the default #ejabberd.yml that came with the distro. I was surprised that it needed next to no tweaking. 😜
Oh, the conversation was originally in the context of using #XMPP for development so I was in that mindset.
That said, in the past when a new module popped up and I didn't know what it did, besides reading the #ejabberd docs I'd take a look at the corresponding #XEP of there was one. Not necessarily a detailed read, but enough to get a general idea of what the module does and how, to decide if I need it or not.
Besides, a bit of relaxing reading never goes amiss!
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